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Battle Bears Balance Suggestions(revised and will most likely contain weird mechanics and shifts)

KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
edited April 30 in Balance Discussion
After getting unbanned, I decided I continue my work of looking at BBG's weapons, specials and characters changes that should be made in order to improve quality of game play and to clean up olden stuff in a certain weapon/character.
Updated as of (4/30/17 at 5:28 PM EST)

Note: This thread will probably die after posting Big Boy changes, which is no longer close to finishing.

Flawless Disguise
Will be part of the Competitive Balance list
This special has gotten the cold hand by me without me thinking clearly, for that I apologize. However, this special clearly needs more work and will be part of the Competitive Balance list.

Caffeine Injection
Lowered Speed bonus from 150u/s to 120u/s
Caffeine Injection has been very strong with most loadouts due to it's good boost of speed and can make new players and veterans struggle to defeat certain sets. This is meant to tone down the usage of Caffeine Injection and opens up slightly more usable sets along with it.

B-1000
Base Speed increased from 200 to 225
Backward Speed increased from 185 to 210
Side Speed increased from 200 to 225

Small steps can sometimes make a big difference. I guess. B-1000 is drastically slow, with no scary mid-long range damage output that he can utilize for his poor speed and able to get shredded instantly. This will help B-1000 navigate slightly more easier.

Last Resort
Reload decreased from 5.5 seconds to 3.5 seconds
As a good "Last Resort", the damage is very amazing while it's difficult to actually utilize it. However, moving around or canceling the charge will put it on a harmful cool down, making it unusable in most situations. This buff is meant to allow the usage of this weapon more often after having it canceled.

Engineer
Base Speed increased from 250 to 260
Backward Speed increased from 160 to 170
Side Speed increased from 160 to 170
Speed +2 decreased from +25 to +20

This change is aimed at making Base Graham more beginner friendly, due to his Power Glove unimpressive usage and the Turrets situational gameplay putting away new Graham players. Due to the Base Speed buff, I toned down Speed +2 so that Speed+3 will have a slightly less impactful effect due to it losing the current +37.5 speed bonus.

Muskit
Radiation Damage decreased from 40-60 to 40-55
Damage lowered from 35 to 20
Ammo increased from 2 to 3

The Muskit is a small reason why Plasma Shotgun Saberi isn't really used as Graham has a more impactful secondary of Gernobyl and has a slightly less larger hitbox than her while at the same time the weapon's lack of decent base ammo and it's RoF can feel clunky and dumb at times. These changes make it's damage go down to an understandable level to make room for the a less clunky RoF and Ammo count.

Turret
Damage increased from 3.5 to 4
Health increased from 180 to 200

Although it's a decently good weapon to use, it falls into the few weapons in game that have different weapons perform it's job better or have more usage and viability. Turrets are fairly strong and with Ammo +2, they become really good area control units. The real problem of the Turret is that it lacks the utility that other weapons can provide, an example would be of Bind Field with it's good slowing effect and Gernobyl for it's Radiation Damage. Buffs are made to increase the damage value that a Turret can provide so that they are a little more recognizable and to ensure a slightly longer lifespan.

Rivet Gun
Fire Rate lowered from 0.76 seconds to 0.60 seconds
Projectile Speed increased from 1,600 u/s to 1,700 u/s

Another weapon that has it's other options more usable and viable, it falls to the same case of Turret and a very similar case, Radiation Rod. Overall, this change aims to have a better time landing shots and maximizing it's damage output at a short to medium range. This change will be thought upon again and might be removed until I find a better way to balance it.


Big Boy Changes
These changes are aimed towards fixing weapons of major flaws in terms of damage, usage, utility or not filling gaps that the classes are weak to and fixing weapons that have become way too powerful or stall-like natures. Because of this, they'll be slightly more worked upon and it will be updated multiple times until it can be submitted to a certain balance group for review. These weapons will be fixated for Competitive scene of Battle Bears Gold, which is although small still is important for balance.

Changes within Changes
-Rivet Gun Fire Rate buff value decreased from 0.50 to 0.60 seconds
Although Rivet Gun is kinda off right now, increasing fire rate could potentially make this dangerously suspectible to balance issues, thus slightly raising the Fire Rate again for the sake of it.
-B-1K Speed Value buffs increased from 215/200/215 to 225/210/225
B-1k's current situation right now is really weak compared to other damage dealers due to their better speed and the speed buff in this thread won't be enough for B-1k to be recognized, as such I increased the speed value by a little again.
-Musket RoF buff removed and increased minimum Radiation Damage to 40.
-Turret Damage buff decreased from 4.25 to 4
-Engineer Health buff and Speed+1 buff has been removed.
-Last Resort Reload Time decreased from 4 to 3.5

The list of weapons being worked on currently will be listed below
Oliver: TNT Launcher, Solar Wind Scar
Riggs: Zombee Gun, Big Shot, Buzz Kill, Mother of Nature, Freeze Blast
Huggable: Phantom Hug
Demo: Blast-O-Mole, Piece Maker, Phat Man
Astoria: Crossbow, Blowdart
Wil: Doomstick, Soles Bane, Whipped Pain, Batterito
Graham: Radiation Rod, Power Glove, Black Hole
B-1K: Last Resort, Energy Barrier, Satellite
Botch: Chaos Toss, Toxic Plague
Saberi: Toxic Rifle, Gamma Burst
Sanchez: Drain Field, Parashoot
Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!

Comments

  • SSP_RismSSP_Rism Member Posts: 1,995 Underlord 2016
    give last resort 5000 max damage range and 1000000000000 min damage range
    SSS
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    Updated. So bU Mp
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    bumped
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    bumpdated
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • SSP_RismSSP_Rism Member Posts: 1,995 Underlord 2016
    @KururuGunso your caffiene stats would for exact numbers be 120+ speed (currently 150+)
    SSS
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    @Dujuran thanks dude
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    da boomp
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • SSP_RismSSP_Rism Member Posts: 1,995 Underlord 2016
    Flawless disguise is fine if anything it needs a buff so it can't be seen on radar, it's great against hitscan but terrible against spread and aoe so i mean i say it's fine
    SSS
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 3,409 Noble
    Dujuran wrote: »
    Flawless disguise is fine if anything it needs a buff so it can't be seen on radar, it's great against hitscan but terrible against spread and aoe so i mean i say it's fine

    I haven't played bbg in ages, so i can't contribute much. But i will say that i agree that flawless disguise hasn't been an overwhelming special since BBR. A nerf to it's hitbox will make it much less useful and i don't think it'd be very effective at its job.
    OKY was here
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    The Flawless Disguise change is being re-routed to the Competitive Balance List.
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    Rivet Gun Buff Value has been nerfed and 30% done with changes for the Big Boy Changes.

    Submitting the Caffeine Injection nerf and B-1K base stats buff soon for approval.
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    B-1k's speed buff was slightly increased and 45% done with the Big Boy Changes.

    It seems like both CI Nerf and B-1k Buff didn't make it through, so it'll still be worked upon.
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    edited April 30
    Bump.

    Thought about the changes again and decided to remove/buff/nerf the new values so they won't be too suspectible to balancing issues regarding Normal Matches. Big Boy Changes had some weapons in there were now removed from the list.
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    alright dudes and girldudes

    because the comp list is having more tech issues(thanks google) and i really want to take up what the community wants, i want you guys to see what kind of weapons you'd like changed for pub matches so that they can be either used more or less "o p"

    this is also mainly because im a lazy man atm
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • SSP_RismSSP_Rism Member Posts: 1,995 Underlord 2016
    SRCG, bass canon, caffeine, cssg and blow darts
    Idk how to balance em so...
    SSS
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    edited June 14
    Dujuran wrote: »
    SRCG, bass canon, caffeine, cssg and blow darts
    Idk how to balance em so...

    i'll just give my thoughts to them

    SRCG: Stacking seems to be a problem for this weapon, so nerfing Explosions +1&+2 should lower it's strong performance on Pub matches. Besides that, this weapon is actually not far from bad.

    Bass Cannon: Because of the Rapid Fire Tap mechanic it has, this weapon has too much insane damage mid-close range and can block projectiles with it's shots. Nerfs to Damage, Ammo, Damage Equips and giving it a slightly stronger Health Penalty will push this weapon back from being insanely strong.

    Caffeine Injection: It gives too much mobility basically. A slight nerf to the Speed Boost is okay. At the moment though, it is better to give weaker specials a buff more than slightly nerfing one special.

    Chainsaw Shotgun: It does show a lot of power, but beginners often struggle with this weapon and eventually stick to Boomstick. Nerfing max damage and RoF, but buffing Base Ammo and minimum damage should help slightly fix both issues.

    Blowdart: The weapon does not seem to look well as a Sniper and has multiple balance issues based on it's identity of being a Rapid Fire TNT Launcher. Either revert back to Pre-Overhaul or start nerfing stuff around it due to it's high damage output and stupid area control.

    that's all i have, im too tired rn
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    bump

    really desperate for more activity on this thread rn
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • StarcStarc Member Posts: 1,040 Sergeant
    no bumping threads! follow the rule
    If you want to join BearRaiders. PM @Starc
    Starc's kik: .starc

    Before joining BR clan, please read the guidelines:
    http://battlebears.vanillaforums.com/discussion/46442/br-bear-raiders-bbo-and-bbg-recruiting/p1

    "If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or objects." -Albert Einstein
  • smtonysmtony Member Posts: 492 Recruit
    Starc wrote: »
    no bumping threads! follow the rule

    This is not even an old thread...
    nfa6ozvkhf2j.gif
    Now on to the story...
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    n4qbqdeqfogl.png
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • EarmuffsEarmuffs Member, MVP, Trial Moderator Posts: 2,149 War Hero
    edited June 18
    Starc wrote: »
    no bumping threads! follow the rule

    The rule is no bumping really old threads. This is fine.
    giphy.gif giphy.gif




  • StarcStarc Member Posts: 1,040 Sergeant
    oh ok. sorry im still new in here and still tryin to learn the million rules
    If you want to join BearRaiders. PM @Starc
    Starc's kik: .starc

    Before joining BR clan, please read the guidelines:
    http://battlebears.vanillaforums.com/discussion/46442/br-bear-raiders-bbo-and-bbg-recruiting/p1

    "If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or objects." -Albert Einstein
  • thecheeseloverthecheeselover Member Posts: 3,320 Noble
    @Starc I guess you can bump threads,but bumping threads with meaningless information is highly discouraged
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    Alright anyways

    Any weapons you guys wanna suggest to be uh "reviewed" by your lord and devil
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • Ultimate_BearUltimate_Bear Member Posts: 992 Underlord 2016
    Review me
    ybqrvwtdjq49.png
    18cek3ohgw0m.gif

  • thecheeseloverthecheeselover Member Posts: 3,320 Noble
    @KururuGunso Review Buzz Kill
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    Buzz Kill: At the moment, other secondaries outclass this as the Buzz Kill takes too much time to deal constant damage and cannot be used effectively due to fast classes able to outspeed the slow wasp. Damage, Projectile Speed and better Reload should make this weapon a bit more usable.
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • thecheeseloverthecheeselover Member Posts: 3,320 Noble
    @KururuGunso Review Hivey League
  • EarmuffsEarmuffs Member, MVP, Trial Moderator Posts: 2,149 War Hero
    A little ironic coming from a SoFly user, but SoFly should be toned down IMO. Walk back + mash melee is a great counter to huggables that fly straight at people, but it only works with fast classes. Slower ones just have to take it and hope they don't die. I feel like it should deal less damage. So many mediocre huggables use it offensively and just rush at people, but it should be more of a sneak attack/get away tool. Lowering the damage would discourage the mindless charging while retaining what's fun and unique about the weapon.
    giphy.gif giphy.gif




  • SSP_RismSSP_Rism Member Posts: 1,995 Underlord 2016
    Plasma orb, freeze blast, every stock melee weapon in the game, Dead eye, aow, sno matter, let it cold, reverse fountain, fireworks, phatman and bubble gun
    SSS
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    Hivey League: A decent weapon in Pubs but non-usable in a competitive environment, this weapon is a rapid fire shotgun that doesn't exactly hurt too much and increases your kill time(a word I use for killing someone in a certain time period) making this weapon unfavorable. Buffing Damage and Damage Equips should make this weapon a bit more stronger in Comp like matches while it shouldn't affect too much of it's performance in Pubs.

    Plasma Orb: The Steamshot of Riggs, this weapon performs well in Pub and Comp. Although I don't feel like this weapon needs any changing, one thing I would change is removing the Speed Buff stat on it. Although I don't mind Riggs having other options of becoming more speedy, this weapon alone shouldn't give such a good stat boost since this weapon has already decent stats by itself.

    Freeze Blast: Known for freezing your game, it has seen rare usage in Pubs and usually banned in certain Comp Matches. The weapon itself isn't bad, it just doesn't fit Riggs arsenal. I would lower the RoF but increase Puddle Damage(since this weapon utilizes the puddles well with a really strong slow) so there won't be so much projectiles out on the field but still have it's good damage output when there was "many puddles".

    Dead Eye: This weapon is pretty good, players with experience can utilize this weapon's perfect accuracy and respectable damage output to deal quick bursts of damage. At times however, it's damage exceeds normal damage from other weapons, making this weapon extremely powerful. A small damage nerf and a slightly higher reload time should reduce it's power throughout the course of a match.

    Art of War: Currently, nerfs put this weapon in check for Comps and 1v1's. However, it is still going strong in Pubs due to it's low kill time from it's fast fire rate and decent damage. Lowering this weapon RoF but slightly reducing Reload Time should make this weapon create more easier to fight against while the user should feel more comfortable needing to reload in a tight situation.

    Sno Matter: This weapon is very strong in Comp matches, due to not only being able to block projectiles with it's own, but freeze enemies that are hit by it(teammates are affected too sadly) and makes them reset their reload time, making this an amazing support primary. At times however, it performs too strongly for a character that has a very good mix of stats. Nerf to Reload Time and no longer being increased by Ammo Equip makes this weapon a bit more tricky to use and the user should need to determine when it's a good time to freeze the cheese.

    Reverse Fountain: A unique weapon that counters Tesla Shield, this weapon is common among Light Matter users in Comp due to it being an answer to the answer to Light Matter. This weapon although is strong in competitive play and gives better kill time, it's Pub usage is very low due to it's weird arc and Speed Users being able to run around the projectile. A better travel time should make this weapon very favorable in Pubs, although it raises concern for comp users.

    Let it Cold: I haven't done enough testing with this weapon, but travel time and AoE hitbox seems to be the main concern here. That said, I've already participated in a comp match where the freeze effect from that weapon literally turned a 2v4 around and gave 4 free points to the enemy due to that powerful freeze effect. It should be more usable in Pub, but it's strength is still questionable in Comp.

    Fireworks: Pub Stomper and Comp Stomper. Rapid Fire explodies. Nerf the RoF.

    Phatman: Massive AoE and insane damage in return of slow travel speed and a speed penalty. Good for Pubs and decent in Comp, no changes needed.

    Bubble Gun: I'll talk about this later, im gonna post this now and edit this at a later date
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    edited July 10
    Now, before I edit the above post for the Bubble Gun, I'm gonna post a test Botch Update.

    I feel that the Assassin should be using Damage Equipment to maximize his burst on primary weapons and create more of a squishy less mobile target that forces you to play safe around enemies, with secondaries allowing Botch to have options to disengage, rather than assist Botch's killing mechanic(handed all power towards his Primary Equipment). This gives a slightly new identity for Botch, where stacking +3 is completely fair!

    These changes are aimed at making Botch more rewarding to buy and learn from other weapons, increase his potency in a fight and make him more of an easier kill if he doesn't play right.

    Botch
    Health reduced from 85 to 75
    Armor +1 decreased from +8.5 to +7.5
    Armor +2 decreased from +17 to +15
    Speed decreased from 315 to 295
    Side and Back Speed has decreased by the same amount of normal speed.

    This change, although a little weird is meant to aim at a more squishy and easier target to hit if Botch is not using his secondaries to push back attackers.


    Doom Cloud
    Duration decreased from 6 seconds to 4 seconds
    Damage +1 increased from +3 to +4.5
    Damage +2 increased from +6 to +9

    Aimed at picking off bad switch ins like Huggable and Melee Riggs, it sacrifices the clouds uptime for more bursty damage when using Damage equipment

    Chaos Toss
    Damage changed from 8 damage every second to 8.75 damage every second
    Firing Speed decreased from 1.33 seconds to 0.83 seconds
    Duration decreased from 10 to 8
    No longer is affected by Ammo +2
    Is now affected by Damage +1(+1.25) and Damage +2(+2.5)

    In a competitive scene, this is highly outclassed by Doom Cloud and Orbs, due to both not having to rely on heavily increased kill time so you can deal decent amounts of damage. This change makes Chaos Toss more powerful with the Damae Equipment addition and more constant as a good reliable damage source while not making it too powerful.

    So what do you guys think so far? It's not finished, I still plan on adding on to Bubble Gun and think about this "Heavy Equipment Realiant Based" Character Direction. I'm still at hard working for the Big Boy Changes, having slightly more time to participate and look at my friends competitive games together.
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    edited July 19
    Necro Bump

    I need some opinions and thoughts about some following changes for KOTW.

    King Of The Windmill

    Windmills land down on a set location, dealing damage to anyone near the impact. When it lands, the windmill not only becomes contested if any players are on it, but will generate a Propbearganda boost to all players within the area, with the radius being slightly increased. After a certain amount of time, the windmill leaves to another location, giving 1 point to a team with every player on it. The windmill spawning is slightly faster and shield powerup duration on this mode is reduced by 1.25 seconds(includes spawn shield duration).

    Thoughts?
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • KidGunsoKidGunso Member Posts: 1,473 Sergeant
    Let's get riiiiighhtttt into the news, folks!
  • StarcStarc Member Posts: 1,040 Sergeant

    If you want to join BearRaiders. PM @Starc
    Starc's kik: .starc

    Before joining BR clan, please read the guidelines:
    http://battlebears.vanillaforums.com/discussion/46442/br-bear-raiders-bbo-and-bbg-recruiting/p1

    "If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or objects." -Albert Einstein
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