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Hackey5's Complete Contents of Balancing 2

Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
edited January 2017 in Balance Discussion
I return with number two of the renowned balancing list. Here you can discover my perspective of the game and how I believe it can be improved, for how players are able to utilise the available inventory is how they will come to enjoy the game the most. You can also find all the current stats in conjunction with my suggestions for complete analysis and comparison, current as dated at the end of this post.

The Soldier through to the Assault class have received my input (the classes with the more definitive combat roles), as well as Specials, item pricing and a few other things. The original thread was founded by the v2.6 balancing changes that I was personally asked by the staff to provide myself, of which derived even earlier from an old Stat Project series. Indeed, I have been playing the game and working BBG/BBR stats for years now, and for the record, first downloaded the game on December 4, 2011, which is also when I formally joined the Battle Bears Forum, despite having first created my account in April that year.

Below is my attempt to balance everything by means of improvement, creativity, originality and from a neutral standpoint. My suggestions are by no means perfect or correct in any way, but I can guarantee that each and every one is thoughtfully considered. Please read the following Vision and Standardisation sections to develop a clearer understanding of my intentions. I thank those who shared their feedback over the years as this was invaluable in helping me push beyond my own limitations to give my suggestions that refinement I could not have provided on my own.
____________________

Show Vision
Balancing extends beyond the tweaking of a few numbers here and there to achieve comparatively higher or lower power for individual weapons. Although that is the essence of balancing, it is naive to believe that that alone is sufficient to achieve balance. Readjustment, maybe, but every weapon classified as one type will likely always surpass weapons of another type, not because of their numbers, but because of their mechanics and the distinct differences in capacity. After taking into consideration the sheer complexity of the complete inventory, a vision of it being balanced may be a seemingly impossible prospect. The truth is, it is. But in working towards balance being greater than it is less, it is clear that the inventory must be assessed as a whole. Even so, it cannot be limited by any preconceptions provided by existing numbers, and it must be recognised that the effect of weapon mechanics necessitates varying levels of grading that might not result in seemingly equal treatment. However, it is all in pursuit of the ideal balance, no matter how distant. There is a bigger picture here and one will only understand what those awful smudges of paint are for once the whole thing is done.
Since the game's inception, in terms of players' general preferences, there has always been an appeal towards the Soldier and Heavy classes. They are each recognisably offensive classes which are very reliable and can adapt to most combat situations quite easily. Competitive matches frequently include these two classes above all others, and while they are by no means invincible, they are naturally advantageous by the continuous medium to long range damage that can be immediately dealt using automatic weapons that are hitscan and not hindered by lag, further enhanced by the synergy with closer-ranged shotguns, explosive weapons and even saboteurs. Furthermore, the learning curve with these weapons is low compared to other kinds of weapons, but retains an excellent payoff nonetheless. Turning towards the inventories of other classes, weapons tend to have more complicated mechanics and hold steeper learning curves. It is important to acknowledge that they are certainly more situational, which can have immense advantages over the Soldier and Heavy classes when wielded by experienced and skillful players, but generally lack that overall effectiveness across a wider range of combat situations that makes the Soldier and Heavy classes so preferable for plentiful kills and minimal deaths. This is plainly reflected by players' competitive selections, and unfortunately, this really has always been the case.

Two major events have occurred along the inventory development timeline. v1.4.3 saw the end of +4 Equipment stacking, eliminating the overpowering nature of many weapons when used in combination with stacked Equipment. The coming of BBG later introduced the two Pro-Mode features, the Jump and Radar. Both these two items indirectly reduced the effectiveness of not just individual weapons and Specials, but entire playstyles and classes. The Jump feature additionally changed the way players manoeuvred the maps by allowing far greater freedom of movement to hop out of tight positions and, often combined with the Turkish SW Boots, traverse previously inaccessible structures. While automatic weapon usage remained mostly unaffected, all projectile weapons and sniper rifles immediately became significantly more difficult to use due to the highly mobile nature of targets. Meanwhile, players possessing the Radar were granted crucial battlefield intelligence, no longer needing to perform visible searches for nearby targets but could immediately identify their relative positions in all directions, heavily reducing the benefit of being able to strategically plan one's movements. In my opinion, the Pro-Mode features actually achieved the opposite of what their name suggests: they made it easier to perform well while being less of a pro, not to mention increasing the difference of capability between new players and existing players so that for new players, it is a lot harder to gain an edge. If possible, I would vote for at the very least an option to disable the Pro-Mode features as a Custom Matchmaking option.

While the game has come a long way and greater balance has certainly been achieved over the years - noting that the Heavy could once move faster than a Sniper with the right Equipment, and the Electric Honey once had the potential to deal 115 DPS for 12 seconds with just a 3 second reload - the Soldier and Heavy classes' appeal remains unsurpassed. The intention with my suggestions is to shift the weighting so that to an appropriate extent, all classes can be worthy contenders for competitive selection, and that those classes with the steepest learning curves can have an equally if not greater payoff than the Soldier and Heavy classes, for being able to be used with skill, in the right combat situations, and to a high degree of proficiency.

Show Standardisation
An important aspect of balancing is developing a common language that is consistent across the entire inventory. While anyone can pick out numbers, one should be able to describe exactly how and why they have done so. Before proceeding to my suggestions, do familiarise yourself with the inherent design behind the numbers.
Automatic Weapon Rate of Fire
- Very fast: 0.05
- Fast: 0.10
- Medium: 0.15
- Slow: 0.20
- Very slow: 0.25

Projectile Weapon Rate of Fire
- Very fast: 0.5
- Fast: 1.0
- Medium: 1.5
- Slow: 2.0
- Very slow (single reserve): 3.0

Reload
- Automatic lower tier: 4.5
- Automatic upper tier: 5.0
- Shotgun lower tier: 4.5
- Shotgun upper tier: 5.0
- Explosives lower tier: 3.0
- Explosives upper tier: 3.5
- Sniper rifle lower tier: 3.0
- Sniper rifle upper tier: 3.5
- Single reserve: 3.0
- Radiation: 3.5
- Poison: 4.5
- Ability: 5.0
- Other weapons: 4.0

Dispersion Angle
- Perfect accuracy: 0.000
- High accuracy: 0.025
- Medium accuracy: 0.050
- Low accuracy: 0.075
- Very low accuracy: 0.100

Projectile Speed
- Very slow: 500
- Slow: 750
- Medium: 1000
- Fast: 1500
- Very fast: 2000
- Extremely fast: 2500

Automatic Weapon Calculated Stats
- shots per second, SPS = (1 / ROF)
- damage per second, DPS = (1 / ROF * dmg)
- duration = (ammo * ROF)
- damage per clip, DPC = (ammo * dmg)

Melee Weapon Generalisations
- Default melee | 30 damage | 5 ; 10 Melee Equipment
- +20% Special cooldown melee | 40 damage | 10 ; 20 Melee Equipment
- +10% health melee | 40 damage | 10 ; 20 Melee Equipment
- +10% speed melee | 40 damage | 10 ; 20 Melee Equipment
- Damage melee | 50 damage | 15 ; 30 Melee Equipment
- Cooldown reset melee | 40 damage | 10 ; 20 Melee Equipment

Equipment Generalisation

Base Stats (armour)
- Armour +1: +10% health
- Armour +2: +20% health

Base Stats (speed)
- Speed +1: +10% speed
- Speed +2: +20% speed

Automatics (ammo)
- +duration = [5 or 10 or 20] * ROF

Automatics (damage)
- Damage +1: +5 DPS
- Damage +2: +10 DPS

Shotguns/Explosives/Sniper Rifles (ammo <=5)
- Ammo +1: +1 ammo
- Ammo +1: +2 ammo

Shotguns/Explosives/Sniper Rifles (ammo >5)
- Ammo +1: +2 ammo
- Ammo +1: +4 ammo

Shotguns/Sniper Rifles (damage)
- Damage +1: +5 damage
- Damage +2: +10 damage

Explosives (explosives)
- Explosives +1: +10 damage
- Explosives +2: +20 damage

Heavy Explosives (explosives)
- Explosives +1: +25 damage
- Explosives +2: +50 damage

Information current as of 24/01/16, v2.26.
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Comments

  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    edited January 2017
    SOLDIER - Reviewed
    The Soldier is a speed-weighted class which wields automatics as primary weapons and support shotguns and explosives as secondary weapons.
    - Health: 110 -> 100
    - Forward speed: 240 -> 250
    - Sideward speed: 240 -> 235
    - Backward speed: 230 -> 220
    - Ground acceleration: 600
    - Air acceleration: 300
    - Armour Equipment: 12 ; 25 -> 10 ; 20
    - Speed Equipment: 10% ; 20%
    X Maximum damage range: (75)

    Show Primary Weapons (7/9)
    The ASRs serve as base models - one branch versatile and one branch damage-orientated - with which changes to damage, rate of fire and ammo are calculated for the other automatics by the listed percentages.
    A Salt Rifle (base ASR)
    (base) Damage: 4.85 -> 5.0
    (base) Rate of fire: 0.15
    (base) Ammo: 25 -> 30
    - Reload: 1.5
    - Dispersion angle: 0.0
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 15 -> 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.8 ; 1.6 -> 0.75 ; 1.50
    The base for the original, more versatile automatic variants, with 33.33 DPS and a firing duration of 4.5 seconds. Rapid reloading plus precision accuracy makes for a multi-purpose default.

    Sci-Fi ASR (base SF-ASR)
    (base) Damage: 5.5 -> 6.0
    (base) Rate of fire: 1.155 -> 0.15
    (base) Ammo: 20
    - Reload: 2.0
    - Dispersion angle: 0.0
    - Speed modifier: +5% -> -10%
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.55 ; 0.82 -> 0.75 ; 1.50
    The base for the v1.3.1, more damaging automatic variants, with 40 DPS and a firing duration of 3 seconds. Maintains accuracy with a penalty to movement speed.

    Heavy A Salt Rifle (heavy ASR)
    (+100%) Damage: 7.0 -> 10.0
    (-33%) Rate of fire: 0.14 -> 0.2
    (+100%) Ammo: 60
    - Reload: 4.5
    - Dispersion angle: 0.05
    - Speed modifier: -10%
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 15 -> 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.35 ; 0.75 -> 1.0 ; 2.0
    This solid automatic with 50 DPS provides well with a firing duration of 12 seconds. However, it is partially penalised with reduced movement speed and inaccuracy, as well as a long reload.

    Sci-Fi HASR (heavy SF-ASR)
    (+100%) Damage: 7.0 -> 12.0
    (-33%) Rate of fire: 0.125 -> 0.20
    (+100%) Ammo: 60 -> 40
    - Reload: 4.5 -> 5.0
    - Dispersion angle: 0.05
    - Speed modifier: -12% -> -20%
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 17 -> 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0 -> 1.0 ; 2.0
    60 DPS and a firing duration of 8 seconds takes a step up from its counterpart in terms of damage, but loses a bit more with movement speed and reloading.

    Soaker (burst ASR)
    (+50%) Damage: 4.3 -> 7.5
    (+33%) Rate of fire: 0.08 -> 0.10
    (+100%) Ammo: 55 -> 60
    - Reload: 4.5
    X Speed modifier: (+5%)
    - Range: 1150 -> 1500
    - Ammo Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.25 ; 0.50 -> 0.5 ; 1.0
    The burst design offers 75 DPS losing some time off the firing duration at 6 seconds. Limited range instead of reduced movement speed marks a tougher penalty.

    Urine Trouble (burst SF-ASR)
    (+50%) Damage: 6.3 -> 9.0
    (+33%) Rate of fire: 0.08-> 0.10
    (+100%) Ammo: 40
    - Reload: 5.0
    - Range: 750 -> 1000
    X Speed modifier: (+10%)
    - Ammo Equipment: 5 10 -> 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0
    Settling with 90 DPS and a firing duration of only 4 seconds, this deals the highest damage of all the Soldier's automatics. Takes a greater blow to range and reload than its counterpart, though.

    O.C.O. Gauntlet
    X Damage: (30)
    - Explosives: 50-60 -> 40-80
    - Rate of fire: 0.7 -> 1.0
    - Ammo: 3
    - Reload: 5.0 -> 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 1500
    + Spawn delay: 2.0 -> 1.0
    - Maximum damage range: 50 -> 100
    - Minimum damage range: 100 -> 200
    - Speed modifier: +10%
    - Ammo Equipment: 0 ; 1 -> 1 ; 2
    X Damage Equipment: (5 ; 10)
    - Explosives Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    It has to perform well to compare in any way to the reliability of the automatic weapons. All round improvements, faster deployment from the spawn position, and an appropriately regulated rate of fire.

    Minigun
    Unnecessary. Remove weapon.

    Acreambo Pistols
    Unnecessary. Remove weapon.

    Show Secondary Weapons (6/7)
    Bearzooka
    - Explosives: 20-40 -> 30-60
    - Rate of fire: 1.0
    - Ammo: 2 -> 1
    - Reload: 4.0 -> 3.0
    - Projectile speed: 900 -> 1000
    - Maximum damage range: 100
    - Minimum damage range: 200
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    Even as a default, it lacks power, which is built up keeping in mind the change to be single reserve. The reload is adjusted accordingly and to also be more in touch with beginners missing often.

    Rockette Launcher
    - Explosives: 10-20 -> 30-60
    X Damage: (10)
    - Rate of fire: 0.3 -> 0.5
    - Ammo: 4 -> 2
    - Reload: 5.0 -> 3.5
    - Projectile speed: 1250 -> 1500
    - Maximum damage range: 125 -> 50
    - Minimum damage range: 250 -> 100
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 3 ; 6 -> 10 ; 20
    Despite being able to fire faster and with an extra shot in reserve, the AoE is half the size, requiring proper sharpshooting to make the most out of the weapon. It also features inherent knockback if a shot efficiently connects with its target and slight arcing over long distances.

    TNT Launcher
    - Explosives: 35-75 -> 50-100
    - Rate of fire: 1.0
    - Ammo: 2
    - Reload: 3.0 -> 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 1000
    - Explosion delay: 1.0
    - Maximum damage range: 125 -> 100
    - Minimum damage range: 250 -> 200
    - Ammo Equipment: 0 ; 1 -> 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 7.5 ; 15 -> 10 ; 20
    Explosives damage is increased as well as Equipment, although the reload and AoE are toned down.

    Spreadshot
    - Damage: 25 -> 10
    - Rate of fire: 1.0 -> 0.5
    - Ammo: 4 -> 8
    - Reload: 4.0 -> 4.5
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2 -> 2 ; 4
    - Damage Equipment: 3 ; 6 -> 5 ; 10
    These changes make this the least damaging shotgun in the game, but this means it can function as if almost automatic. The result is more room for error and less reloading.

    Steamshot
    - Damage: 50 -> 30
    - Rate of fire: 1.5
    - Ammo: 1 -> 3
    - Reload: 4.0 -> 5.0
    - Ammo Equipment: 0 ; 1 -> 1 ; 2
    - Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    Some minor changes maintain this weapon's damage-orientated design, but reduces damage and increases capacity to be more reliable.

    Sake Bomb
    - Duration: 3.0 -> 4.0
    - Rate of fire: 0.1 -> 1.0
    - Ammo: 20 -> 1
    - Reload: 5.0 -> 3.0
    - Projectile speed: 1000
    + Effect range: 250
    + Speed modifier: +10%
    X Ammo Equipment: (4 ; 8)
    X Explosives Equipment: (- ; 0)
    Pulling right away from the obscure 'automatic saboteur' design, the suggestion here is to make it the one power shot that counts. Increased duration and AoE alongside a faster reload increases effectiveness against individual targets. For being non-damaging, it also receives a speed multiplier.

    Solar Wind Scar
    Unnecessary. Alternatively, convert into a melee weapon.

    Show Melee Weapons (5/5)
    B.E.A.R. Club
    - Damage: 40 -> 30
    - Melee Equipment: 8 ; 15 -> 5 ; 10

    Queensbury Rules
    - Damage: 45 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 8 ; 15 -> 10 ; 20
    X Health modifier: (+5%)
    + Special cooldown modifier: +20%

    Krikkit Bat
    - Damage: 50 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 8 ; 15 -> 10 ; 20
    + Health modifier: +10%
    X Special cooldown modifier: (+10%)

    Disciplinarian
    - Damage: 55 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 8 ; 15 -> 10 ; 20
    - Speed modifier: +10%

    Kumakiri
    - Damage: 50
    - Melee Equipment: 8; 15 -> 15 ; 30
    X Health modifier: (+10%)
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    edited January 2017
    HEAVY - Reviewied
    The Heavy is a health-weighted class which wields automatics as primary weapons and support shotguns and explosives as secondary weapons.
    - Health: 220 -> 180
    - Forward speed: 195 -> 210
    - Sideward speed: 185 -> 195
    - Backward speed: 185 -> 170
    - Ground acceleration: 500 -> 600
    - Air acceleration: 300
    - Armour Equipment: 25 ; 40 -> 18 ; 36
    - Speed Equipment: 8% ; 12% -> 10% ; 20%

    Show Primary Weapons (6/8)
    The Soldier and Heavy distinctly represent automatic wielders with contrasting core stat weightings. For this reason, stat rearrangement is removed in favour of weapons themselves providing use incentive based on their attributes.
    Electric Honey (super versatile variant)
    - Damage: 5.0 -> 8.0
    - Rate of fire: 0.10 -> 0.20
    - Ammo: 85 -> 100
    - Reload: 4.5 -> 4.0
    - Dispersion angle: 0.02 -> 0.05
    - Ammo Equipment: 12 ; 18 -> 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0 -> 1.0 ; 2.0
    (?) Fire rotation speed: 2000 -> 1000
    (?) Spin up speed: 350 -> 500
    (?) Spin down speed: 1500 -> 250
    @ Negligible firing delay
    An all round easy weapon to use, at the cost of nothing but damage: 40 DPS and the longest firing duration of all automatics at 20 seconds. No noticeable windup and only moderate spread contribute to versatility.

    Beebeegun (versatile variant)
    - Damage: 3.5 -> 7.5
    - Rate of fire: 0.08 -> 0.15
    - Ammo: 100
    - Reload: 5.0 -> 4.5
    - Dispersion angle: 0.02 -> 0.075
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.3 ; 0.6 -> 0.75 ; 1.50
    (?) Fire rotation speed: 3000 -> 2000
    (?) Spin up speed: 450 -> 500
    (?) Spin down speed: 3000 -> 500
    @ 0.5 second firing delay
    The default is stable but inaccurate. 50 DPS and a long firing duration of 15 seconds. The estimated wind up stats are aimed for a partial delay, and kills off the current instant-disengage mechanism.

    Provolowned (damage variant)
    - Damage: 9.0
    - Rate of fire: 0.15
    - Ammo: 100 -> 80
    - Reload: 4.5 -> 5.0
    - Dispersion angle: 0.06 -> 0.075
    - Ammo Equipment: 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 1.00 ; 1.75 -> 0.75 ; 1.50
    (?) Fire rotation speed: 3000
    (?) Spin up speed: 400 -> 500
    (?) Spin down speed: 4000 -> 750
    @ 1.0 second firing delay
    Once more, DPS progresses to 60 and firing duration falls to 12 seconds. While powerful, small nerfs make the weapon a slightly more difficult to use.

    Zombee Gun (speed bonus variant)
    - Damage: 5.5
    - Rate of fire: 0.10
    - Ammo: 80 -> 50
    - Reload: 5.0 -> 4.5
    - Range: 1250 -> 1500
    X Health modifier: (-20%)
    - Speed modifier: +30% -> +10%
    - Ammo Equipment: 8 ; 15 -> 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.25 ; 0.50 -> 0.5 ; 1.0
    The stat rearrangement is dropped in favour of a regular speed boost. DPS is sacrificed for this at 55 and can't fire for long at 5 seconds. The effect of limited range has been lessened slightly.

    Field Medic (super damage variant)
    - Damage: 8.0 -> 11.0
    - Rate of fire: 0.10
    - Ammo: 30 -> 20
    - Reload: 3.0 -> 5.0
    - Range: 1000
    X Health modifier: (-30%)
    X Speed modifier: (+40%)
    - Ammo Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0
    Here is the highest damaging automatic at a whopping 110 DPS, but with a petty firing duration of just 2 seconds. Further penalties incur limited range, longer reloading and no speed boost to aid.

    Big Iron
    X Damage: (20)
    + Explosives: 20-40
    - Rate of fire: 0.25 -> 0.50
    - Ammo: 6
    - Reload: 2.0 -> 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 1800 -> 2000
    + Maximum damage range: 50
    + Minimum damage range: 100
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2 -> 2 ; 4
    X Damage Equipment: (5 ; 10)
    + Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    Without any AoE, no wonder lag gets the better of it. These changes mostly focus on redesigning the weapon to incorporate a small AoE. The pace it fires is slowed considering the new-found capability.

    Flame Thrower *experimental
    - Damage: 6.5 -> 5.0
    + Damage (poison as burn): 5.0
    + Duration: 4.0
    - Rate of fire: 0.1
    - Ammo: 30 -> 50
    - Reload: 4.0
    + Range: 500
    - Health modifier: (-15%)
    - Speed modifier: +10% -> -20%
    - Ammo Equipment: 5 ; 8 -> 10 ; 20
    - Damage Equipment: 1.0 ; 1.75 -> 0.5 ; 1.0
    An original concept, this is an automatic weapon which additionally deals poison damage, retitled as 'burn'. For this, it achieves high DPS, lasting a few seconds after exposure to the limited range weapon has ceased. To put this in context, 1 * 50 base DPS + 1 * 5 poison DPS + 4 * 5 poison DPS = 75 total DPS in 5 seconds, after 1 second of exposure and the poison has expired after another 4 seconds.

    Bounce Lazer
    Unsuitable for class. Pass to another.

    Show Secondary Weapons (5/6)
    Hivey League
    - Damage: 15 -> 20
    - Rate of fire: 0.75 -> 1.0
    - Ammo: 6 -> 5
    - Reload: 6.0 -> 4.5
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Damage Equipment: 2 ; 4 -> 5 ; 10
    Reload is improved and damage and rate of fire are adjusted to retain the same output, but with more starting damage, more to be gained by Equipment, although with one less shot.

    Plasma Orb
    - Damage: 35 -> 40
    - Rate of fire: 1.0 -> 2.0
    - Ammo: 2
    - Reload: 5.0
    X Speed modifier: (+5%)
    - Ammo Equipment: 0 ; 1 -> 1 ; 2
    - Damage Equipment: 3 ; 6 -> 5 ; 10
    The weapon shifts its weightings to occupy the heavy shotgun position among the Soldier and Heavy's support shotguns. Although the rate of fire is doubled, damage is upped and Equipment is made to be more worthwhile.

    Buzz Kill
    - Explosives: 25-50 -> 30-60
    - Rate of fire: 2.0 -> 0.5
    - Ammo: 2 -> 5
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 750 -> 1000
    - Explosion delay: 2.0
    - Fly off delay: 1.0
    - Maximum damage range: 100 -> 125
    - Minimum damage range: 200 -> 250
    - Ammo Equipment: 0 ; 1 -> 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    General buffs well equip the weapon to overwhelm entrapped targets, naturally limited by the extended explosion delay.

    Sucker Punch
    - Duration: 2.6 -> 4.0
    - Rate of fire: 0.2 -> 1.0
    - Ammo: 3 -> 1
    - Reload: 3.0
    - Projectile speed: 1000
    - Speed modifier: +10%
    X Ammo Equipment: (0 ; 1)
    X Damage Equipment: (0 ; 0)
    Here we return to the original skillshot version.

    Mother of Nature
    - Damage: 4.0 -> 5.0
    - Duration: 10.0 -> 8.0
    - Rate of fire: 2.5 -> 2.0
    - Ammo: 2
    - Reload: 6.0 -> 4.5
    - Projectile speed: 750
    + Cloud duration: (5.0) -> 4.0
    + Effect range: 250
    X Ammo Equipment: (- ; 1)
    - Damage Equipment: 0.5 ; 1.0 -> 1.0 ; 2.0
    (!) Poison effects do not stack; hitting an affected target only resets the duration.
    Mostly refining odd values. Ammo Equipment can go, along with the stacking effects.

    Freeze Blast
    Unsuitable for class. Pass to another.

    Show Melee Weapons (6/6)
    Barbed Gloves
    - Damage: 20 -> 30
    - Melee Equipment: 4 ; 8 -> 5 ; 10

    Zombee Gloves
    - Damage: 25 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 4 ; 8 -> 10 ; 20
    - Special cooldown modifier: +20%

    Huggable Gloves
    - Damage: 50 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 4 ; 8 -> 10 ; 20
    + Health modifier: +10%
    X Speed modifier: (+10%)

    Catastrophe
    - Damage: 30 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    X Health modifier: (+5%)
    - Speed modifier: +5% -> +10%

    Blood Spurt
    - Damage: 40 -> 50
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 15 ; 30
    X Health modifier: (-5%)
    X Speed modifier: (+10%)

    Sword and Stone
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    X Health modifier: (-10%)
    X Speed modifier: (+20%)
    (!) Resets target's Special cooldown
    For no stat modifier, it gains the ability to reset the Special cooldown of a target which is hit, reducing their effectiveness if managing to avoid followup hits.
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    edited January 2017
    HUGGABLE - Reviewed
    The Huggable is a high speed-weighted class which uses close ranged abilities as primary attacks and passive abilities as secondary utilities.
    - Health: 90 -> 80
    - Forward speed: 330 -> 350
    - Sideward speed: 290 -> 335
    - Backward speed: 290 -> 320
    - Ground acceleration: 650 -> 600
    - Air acceleration: 300
    - Armour Equipment: 9 ; 18 -> 8 ; 16
    - Speed Equipment: 10% ; 20%
    (!) Can switch weapons while reloading/charging

    Show Primary Weapons (5/5)
    Double Rainbow! *experimental
    - Damage: 0 -> 50 DPS
    X Explosives: 30-40
    - Duration: 5.0 -> 4.0
    X Rate of fire: (0.2)
    - Ammo: 1
    - Reload: 1.0 -> 5.0
    X Tired time: (2.7)
    + Diameter: 2.0
    X Maximum damage range: (100)
    X Minimum damage range: (200)
    + Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    X Explosives Equipment: (2.0 ; 4.0)
    (!) Make AoE an all surrounding field, with two rainbows shooting around the user
    Creating a real form of attack by enhancing the properties of the ability is perhaps what is most important if it is ever going to be anything.

    Headlights
    - Damage: 50 DPS
    - Duration: 5.0 -> 2.0
    X Rate of fire: (0.2)
    - Ammo: 1
    - Reload: 1.0 -> 5.0
    X Tired time: (8.0)
    - Range: 1000
    + Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    X Explosives Equipment: (5 ; 9)
    Adjustments for a more practical arrangement of numbers.

    So Fly
    X Damage: (0)
    - Explosives: 60-80 -> 30-60
    - Duration: 2.0
    - Flying duration: 2.0 -> 1.0
    X Rate of fire: (0.2)
    - Ammo: 1
    - Reload: 1.0 -> 5.0
    X Tired time: (4.0)
    - Flying speed: 650 -> 500
    - Maximum speed increase: 110 -> 100
    + Explosives Equipment: 10 ; 20
    As well as halving the duration, a slower flying speed makes manoeuvrability a little easier, while explosives is decreased making way for more potent Equipment boosts.

    Static Shuffle *experimental
    + Damage: 50
    + Incremental damage: 10
    X MinMax damage: 60-75
    - Reload: 2.5 -> 3.0
    - Charge time: 6.0 -> 4.0
    - Charge interval: 1.0
    + Range: 400
    X Maximum damage range: (450)
    X Minimum damage range: (300)
    - Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    Holding to charge will make the now lower base damage build up in intervals of 10 every 1 second up to 4 seconds for a devastating blow of 90 damage. Reload and range have to pay a bit, though.

    Losing Your Head
    X Damage: (50)
    - Explosives: 50-75 -> 20-40
    - Rate of fire: 0.5 -> 1.0
    - Ammo: 1 -> 3
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Maximum damage range: 150 -> 125
    - Minimum damage range: 300 -> 250
    - Explosives Equipment: 4 ; 8 -> 10 ; 20
    In a bold move, an ammo increase and a damage decrease develops an attack no less powerful as long as exposure is not discouraging.

    Show Secondary Weapons (6/6)
    Tough Love
    X Damage: (0)
    - Duration: 4.0 -> 2.0
    - Ability duration: 4.0 -> 8.0
    - Cooldown: 0.2 -> 2.0
    - Ability cooldown: 7.0 -> 5.0
    - Ammo: 1
    - Reload: 1.0 -> 5.0
    X Tired time: (7.0)
    + Melee damage multiplier: 1.5 -> 2.0
    A standard set of values are established, and the melee damage multiplier is made to be double.

    Mini Me
    X Damage: (0)
    - Duration: 2.0
    - Ability duration: 7.0 -> 8.0
    - Cooldown: 0.2 -> 2.0
    - Ability cooldown: 60.0 -> 5.0
    - Ammo: 1
    - Reload: 1.0 -> 5.0
    X Tired time: (10.0)
    The established set of values are carried over onto a different ability.

    Peek a Boo
    X Damage: (10)
    - Duration: 2.0
    - Ability duration: 30.0 -> 8.0
    - Cooldown: 0.2 -> 2.0
    - Ability cooldown: 7.0 -> 5.0
    - Ammo: 1
    - Reload: 1.0 -> 5.0
    X Tired time: (12.0)
    - Maximum visibility: 0.04 -> 0.25
    - Minimum visibility: 0.01 -> 0.05
    The established set of values are carried over onto a different ability, and the additional melee damage goes.

    Charged Run
    X Damage: (65)
    + Duration: 2.0
    X Minimum duration: (6.0)
    X Maximum duration: (6.0)
    + Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time: (10.0)
    X Charge time: (3.0)
    - Flying speed: 600 -> 500
    X Damage Equipment: (3 ; 6)
    If the Huggable is already fast, what is the point of making it faster to the point that it cannot be controlled properly and is impossible to hit? And, it has a useless charging ability, and for some reason it deals damage. These things are all tidied up, but mainly bringing the duration way down so it is just a short burst to quickly storm to or flee from combat.

    Super Size Me!
    X Damage: (20)
    - Explosives: 15-20 -> 40-80
    - Duration: 10.0 -> 2.0
    - Ability duration: 10.0 -> 8.0
    + Reload: 5.0
    X Tired time: (9.0)
    - Maximum damage range: 250
    - Minimum damage range: 500
    - Heal amount: 2.0
    - Heal interval: 0.08 -> 0.1
    - Slow amount: 0.5
    While mostly the same, it is now foolhardy to pass beneath the legs of the super sized huggable! Healing and duration is slightly lower.

    Phantom Hug
    - Duration: 2.5 -> 2.0
    - Rate of fire: 3.0 -> 1.0
    - Reload: 6.0 -> 3.0
    + Projectile speed: 1000
    + Speed multiplier: 0.0
    - Speed modifier: +5% -> +10%
    Missing values are added, the slow multiplier seeing that targets are brought to a standstill but can still retaliate on the spot. For being able to be used frequently, the already short duration is brought down even more.

    Show Melee Weapons (6/7)
    All melee weapons are capable of dealing double damage if both hits (each arm) connect.
    Bite Me
    - Damage: 40 -> 30
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10

    Beaver Fever
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    - Health modifier: +20% -> +10%

    Whacktus
    - Damage: 43 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    - Special cooldown modifier: +10% -> +20%

    Presidentures
    - Damage: 40
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    X Health modifier: (+10%)
    (!) Resets target's Special cooldown
    For no stat modifier, it gains the ability to reset the Special cooldown of a target which is hit, reducing their effectiveness if managing to avoid followup hits.

    Seesaw
    - Damage: 49 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    - Speed modifier: +10%

    Punk Bands
    - Damage: 45 -> 50
    - Melee Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 15 ; 30
    X Special speed modifier: (+10%)

    Bearettas
    Unnecessary. Remove weapon.
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    edited January 2017
    DEMOLITION - Reviewed
    The Demolition is a health-weighted class which wields direct explosives as primary weapons and tactical explosives as secondary weapons.
    - Health: 170 -> 160
    - Forward speed: 265 -> 220
    - Sideward speed: 250 -> 205
    - Backward speed: 200 ->190
    - Ground acceleration: 400 -> 600
    - Air acceleration: 300
    - Armour Equipment: 15 ; 30 -> 16 ; 32
    - Speed Equipment: 10% ; 20%

    Show Primary Weapons (7/8)
    Big Shot (health-orientated variant)
    - Explosives: 15-25 -> 30-60
    - Rate of fire: 1.0 -> 1.5
    - Ammo: 6 -> 5
    - Reload: 4.0 -> 3.5
    - Projectile speed: 1200 -> 1000
    - Maximum damage range: 100
    - Minimum damage range: 200
    - Ammo Equipment: 2 ; 4 -> 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 3 ; 6 -> 10 ; 20
    (!) Non-arcing firing trajectory
    Overall, it is on the right track, but damage is stupidly low. That is fixed by making it the more damaging counterpart, so it loses a bit off everything else while still remaining functional.

    Gold Member (speed-orientated variant)
    - Explosives: 25-35 -> 20-40
    - Rate of fire: 1.5 -> 1.0
    - Ammo: 6 -> 8
    - Reload: 4.0 -> 3.0
    - Projectile speed: 1000
    - Maximum damage range: 125 -> 100
    - Minimum damage range: 250 -> 200
    + Health modifier: -20%
    + Speed modifier: +20%
    - Ammo Equipment: 2 ; 4
    - Explosives Equipment: 3 ; 6 -> 10 ; 20
    Using this weapon opts for a higher speed, lower health build due to the stat rearrangers. Discounting the AoE being shrunken, everything else is raised slightly.

    Dark Matter (health-orientated variant)
    - Explosives: 30-50 -> 40-80
    - Rate of fire: 1.0 -> 1.5
    - Ammo: 3 -> 2
    - Reload: 5.0 -> 3.5
    - Projectile speed: 430 -> 750
    - Maximum damage range: 125 -> 200
    - Minimum damage range: 250 -> 400
    - Ammo Equipment: 0 ; 1 -> 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    Stat weighting is shifted around a bit as versatility turns into damage. Reload and projectile speeds also get a lift.

    Light Matter (speed-orientated variant)
    - Explosives: 20-25 -> 30-60
    - Rate of fire: 0.25 -> 1.0
    - Ammo: 8 -> 3
    - Reload: 5.0 -> 3.0
    - Projectile speed: 500 -> 750
    - Maximum damage range: 150 -> 200
    - Minimum damage range: 300 -> 400
    + Health modifier: -20%
    + Speed modifier: +20%
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; 2
    - Explosives Equipment: 2.5 ; 5.0 -> 10 ; 20
    Using this weapon opts for a higher speed, lower health build due to the stat rearrangers. Low damage, rapid fire, high ammo and slow projectile speed are exchanged for a more reliable design.

    Bouncing Betty
    - Explosives: 30-50 -> 20-40
    - Rate of fire: 1.5 -> 2.0
    - Ammo: 2 -> 3
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 1000
    - Maximum damage range: 125
    - Minimum damage range: 250
    - Explosives Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    Although starting with low damage, effective utilisation of terrain contours may allow for powerful multiplied damage, making it somewhat situational. The longer rate of fire should only regulate the amount of bounces at one time with minimal loss to those who can aim, further compensated with an additional shot.

    Blast-O-Mole
    - Explosives: 50-75 -> 50-100 (4 strikes)
    - Rate of fire: 2.0 -> 1.0
    - Ammo: 2 -> 1
    - Reload: 6.0 -> 3.0
    - Maximum damage range: 110 -> 200
    - Minimum damage range: 220 -> 400
    - Explosives Equipment: 7.5 ; 15.0 -> 10 ; 20
    It is either hit or miss. Totally obliterate with a huge AoE and high damage, or wait out the now shorter reload to fire again.

    Twin Bearzookas
    - Explosives: 15-25 -> 30-60 (doubled)
    - Rate of fire: 0.9 -> 1.0
    - Ammo: 4 -> 2
    + Ammo consumption: 2
    - Reload: 4.5 -> 4.0
    - Projectile speed: 750 -> 1000
    - Maximum damage range: 100
    - Minimum damage range: 290 -> 200
    - Speed modifier: -20%
    - Ammo Equipment: 1 ; - -> 2 ; 4
    - Explosives Equipment: 3 ; 5 -> 10 ; 20
    Firing two projectiles at once changes everything. First, it ought to realistically consume 2 ammo per shot. Then being a terrific damage dealer, it takes a heavy penalty to movement speed. With that out of the way, its name is recognised, mirroring the Soldier's own Bearzooka, yet, producing an interesting spinoff.

    S'no Matter
    Obscure role for class. Pass to another.

    Show Secondary Weapons (7/7) *experimental
    The following suggestions are somewhat experimental, split into two branches of lock and non-lock variants. Lock variants are able to lock on with homing missiles, otherwise they will use the miss target distance and land a certain distance from where they were fired, overriding the hitscan detection attribute. However, non-lock variants will utilise the hitscan detection attribute. This provides two distinct attack mechanisms and with their own variance in damage depending on the selection.
    Fireworks (light non-lock variant)
    - Explosives: 9-13 -> 10-20
    - Rate of fire: 0.25 -> 0.50
    - Ammo: 10 -> 8
    - Reload: 2.7 -> 4.0
    - Can lock: 0
    X Miss target distance: (1000)
    X Lock time: (1.0)
    X Lock radius: (400)
    - Ascend time: 1.0
    - Ascend speed: 2000 -> 1500
    - Descend speed: 2000 -> 2500
    - Maximum damage range: 150 -> 125
    - Minimum damage range: 400 -> 250
    X Ammo Equipment: (3 ; 5)
    - Explosives Equipment: 3.0 ; 5.0 -> 10 ; 20
    Damage is upped and AoE is downed with plentiful ammo to make light of misses as a no-lock launcher. Explosives Equipment is also made far more effective.

    Happy Hour (light lock variant)
    - Explosives: 20-32 -> 10-20
    - Rate of fire: 1.3 -> 0.5
    - Ammo: 5 -> 8
    - Reload: 4.7 -> 4.0
    - Can Lock: 1
    - Homing rating: 1.0 -> 2.0
    - Miss target distance: 1000
    - Lock time: 2.5 > 1.0
    - Lock radius: 300 -> 400
    - Ascend time: 1.5 -> 1.0
    - Ascend speed: 1500
    - Descend speed: 1200 -> 2000
    - Maximum damage range: 100 -> 125
    - Minimum damage range: 400 -> 250
    X Ammo Equipment: (1 ; 2)
    - Explosives Equipment: 4 ; 6 -> 10 ; 20
    The high ammo aims towards increasing the efficiency of utilising concentrated fire at choke points to fortify defensive positions. It's a little slower to do so and with a smaller AoE as a result. Miss target distance overrides the hitscan aiming attribute.

    RPL (damage non-lock variant)
    - Explosives: 40-60 -> 50-100
    - Rate of fire: 1.0 -> 1.5
    - Ammo: 1 -> 3
    - Reload: 3.7 -> 4.5
    - Can Lock: 0
    X Homing rating: (7.0)
    X Lock time: (2.3)
    X Lock radius: (290)
    - Ascend time: 0.5 -> 2.0
    - Ascend speed: 1.0 -> 1000
    - Descend speed: 1100 -> 2000
    - Maximum damage range: 150 -> 250
    - Minimum damage range: 400 -> 500
    X Ammo Equipment: (0 ; 0)
    - Explosives Equipment: 12 ; 18 -> 10 ; 20
    This weapon will be explored more to expand upon these initial suggestions.

    Piece Maker (damage lock variant)
    - Explosives: 30-50 -> 50-100
    - Rate of fire: 1.3-> 1.5
    - Ammo: 2 -> 3
    - Reload: 7.5 -> 4.5
    - Can lock: 1
    - Homing rating: 2.0
    - Miss target distance: 1000
    - Lock time: 3.0 -> 4.0
    - Lock radius: 200 -> 400
    - Ascend time: 2.0
    - Ascend speed: 2500 -> 1000
    - Descend speed: 550 -> 1500
    - Miss target distance: 1000 -> 500
    - Maximum damage range: 250
    - Minimum damage range: 600 -> 500
    X Speed modifier: (-10%)
    - Explosives Equipment: 5 ; 10 -> 10 ; 20
    Damage is full-on escalated for more or less guaranteed kills in a massive AoE, but you now only have one shot to do it and a long time to wait to do it again. Gone is that stat modifier too. Miss target distance overrides the hitscan aiming attribute.

    Reverse Fountain (lingering non-lock variant)
    - Damage: 55 -> 60 DPS
    - Rate of fire: 1.0
    - Ammo: 1
    - Reload: 4.0 -> 5.0
    - Duration: 2.5 -> 8.0
    X Can lock: 1 -> 0
    X Homing rating: (2.0)
    X Lock time: (2.5)
    X Lock radius: (300)
    - Ascend time: 2.0 -> 4.0
    - Ascend speed: 500
    - Descend speed: 1400 -> 1500
    + Diameter: 2.0
    + Damage Equipment: 5 ; 10
    DPS is only once a Demolition thing when used here, looking at working as a prolonged defensive barrier. Equipment is functional, but only able to increase damage using Damage Equipment.

    Phat Man (lingering lock variant)
    X Explosives: (130-190)
    + Radiation: 40 RPS
    + Radiation (on impact): 50-100
    + Duration: 8.0
    - Rate of fire: 1.0
    - Ammo: 1
    - Reload: 15.0 -> 5.0
    - Can lock: 1
    - Homing rating: 10.0 -> 2.0
    - Miss target distance: 2000 -> 0
    - Lock time: 4.0
    - Lock radius: 350 -> 400
    - Ascend time: 6.0 -> 4.0
    - Ascend speed: 700 -> 500
    - Descend speed: 500 -> 1000
    - Maximum damage range: 300 -> 250
    - Minimum damage range: 700 -> 500
    X Speed modifier: (-10%)
    X Explosives Equipment: (20 ; 30)
    This is even more potent than its counterpart, and also with a special suggestion to introduce a lingering radiation field once earthbound to create a devastating destroyer of a defensive weapon. It does take an extended period of time to land, though. Miss target distance being treated as 0 is intended to have the missile act similar to the Cosmic Bomb in that it flies up then down onto the spot it was fired from, only when not locked on, overriding the hitscan aiming attribute.

    Let it Cold (non-lock saboteur variant)
    X Explosives: (25-40)
    - Duration: 1.5 -> 4.0
    - Rate of fire: 0.5
    - Ammo: 4 -> 8
    - Reload: 4.0
    - Ascend time: 4.0 -> 1.0
    - Ascend speed: 2000 -> 1500
    - Descend speed: 2000 -> 2500
    X Maximum damage range: (150)
    X Minimum damage range: (250)
    + Effect range: 250
    + Speed modifier: +10%
    The first true Demolition saboteur, it loses its damage entirely to make way for a longer stun duration while being faster to land, mirroring the design of the Fireworks. For being non-damaging, it also receives a speed modifier.

    Show Melee Weapons (3/3)
    Buzzard
    - Damage: 25 -> 30
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 15 -> 5 ; 10

    Double Hug
    - Damage: 35 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 16 -> 10 ; 20
    X Speed modifier: (+10%)
    + Special cooldown modifier: +20%

    Good Morning
    - Damage: 45 -> 40
    - Melee Equipment: 10 ; 16 -> 10 ; 20
    - Health modifier: +10%
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    edited January 2017
    MISCELLANEOUS - All that stuff you never thought about

    Show Match-Related Fields
    Big Bomb
    - Explosives: 100-500 -> 200-400
    - Maximum damage range: 250 -> 250
    - Minimum damage range: 700 -> 500

    Plant the Bomb Game Length
    - Minutes: 5 -> 6

    Spawn Shield Duration
    - Seconds: 4.5 -> 4.0

    Show Level and Skill Elements
    Skill System
    Ideally, your match performance should influence the amount of skill points you gain or lose, depending on the game mode as to how that is calculated. The number of skill points should then determine your placing under the auto-matchmaker, which is briefly reflected by a rank you reach as you progress, sorting you based on your supposed skill level to fight others of a similar skill level. From there, you continuously fight battles across matches, and the change of skill will progress accordingly.

    Ranks
    - Green: 0
    - Bronze: 1000
    - Silver: 2000
    - Gold: 4000
    + Platinum: 8000
    - Diamond: 8000 -> 16000
    + Spectrum: 32000
    + Bacon: 64000
    Adding new ranks is a simple way to promote more playing of the game, with a properly functioning Skill System, of course.

    Show Links to Other Worthwhile Threads
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    ~reserved~
  • StealthKillStealthKill Member Posts: 1,328 Sergeant
    You're awesome. Total Up Vote. I was first to react on your first Complete Contents of Balancing thread, and now I am on the second.
    Here since June 2012.
  • MadogeeMadogee Member Posts: 468 Recruit
    Wow if i didn't have to sleep ill read all of it. I agree with all of what you have said. Everyone should see this and read it all its amazing. You have clearly dedicated your time.
    flamingtext_com_1410905432_578997200.png
  • LatroLatro Member Posts: 2,095 War Hero
    Glad to see you finally got this up and running! I like most of it, although I'll have to lend some thought to the Sniper, because I'm really not sure how I feel about the primaries (that and the fact Eagle Standard appears to be a near direct upgrade on Tomahawk - perhaps I'm misunderstanding the concept?). Some of the specials might arouse some controversy as well, but I have no qualms with most of them.

    I'll keep an eye on your progress and get back to you in more detail on my concerns.
    <img width="300" height="150" src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5013404/uploads/editor/xf/zd5jgtoxi474.gif"; />


    “Drogon,” she sang out loudly, sweetly, all her fear forgotten. “Dracarys.”
  • StealthKillStealthKill Member Posts: 1,328 Sergeant
    @Inflirtrator
    I was just so enthusiastic about this successor of his first balancing thread that I immediately positively reacted. Just the fact that he is taking the time and energy to post this is awesome to me, regardless of the usefulness of the thread. However, based on his track record, I'm really sure anyway that what he posts will be worthy of those Up Votes.
    Here since June 2012.
  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    @Inflirtrator
    I was just so enthusiastic about this successor of his first balancing thread that I immediately positively reacted. Just the fact that he is taking the time and energy to post this is awesome to me, regardless of the usefulness of the thread. However, based on his track record, I'm really sure anyway that what he posts will be worthy of those Up Votes.

    Well, but the fact is that it's misleading.
    We don't know for exact if it's actually well received for the content, or just because he's Hackey5.

    I bet if he posts up some crappy balance suggestions as a joke, he'll still get an avalanche of positive reactions relative to the disagrees given.
  • AlucardAlucard Member Posts: 5,234 Fabled
    @StealthKill‌ but it does help that there are people who disagree right? I mean it shows you're human.
    Meh
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    edited December 2014
    @Stealthkill: Glad to see your enthusiasm. Inflirtrator is right in saying treating reactions with thought is necessary in order for them to be productive. Regardless of what reaction you express, the important part is bringing words to it and putting on the table what your thoughts are.

    @Inflirtrator: Ah, the most skeptical follower of this series! Good to see you too. As with last time, your Disagrees mean a lot to the progression of ideas so do take the time to explain. Always happy to get down to the details.

    @Latro: Certainly more will be happening here for a while to come! I think you're right in saying the Eagle Standard plays a little too well against its counterpart. Damage + duration > reload + projectile speed. On first thought, I might reduce the Eagle's AoE so it requiring highly precise aiming (still beats no AoE at all).

    In regards to the Sniper, I don't need to play to get the indication that patience and headshots clearly aren't a focus with the latest design of the class. I am still aware that standing around and waiting for those headshots mostly failed to resolve the class's weakness and more so contributed towards it. However, "sniper" to me retains its meaning, which does not lie around confrontational burst firing or assault techniques. My untried attempt is to return its focus onto waiting for headshots, but without the unpredictability of the auto-lock system and simply requiring you to keep a general sight on your target and gain damage while you do so.
  • Melia_AntiquaMelia_Antiqua Member Posts: 1,492 Sergeant
    In all regards, these balance changes are like... butter... jelly... I don't know.

    Despite me looking like a fool and not knowing what to exactly say, you seriously get the best balance changes, though, if I may, you also should go over the Arbiter and Combat Tech classes, see what you can make of them (and their weapons) as well.

    I especially liked Assault's and Sniper's changes. SRCG's still a bit of a... 'conflict' (if you can understand what I mean here) in terms of what Assault's supposed to do.

    But that aside, welcome home, and glad to see you still do this book of changes.
    Oh God, never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers.
  • OnesyOnesy Member Posts: 2,092 War Hero
    Lightning Bolt (suggestion)
    - Damage: 55 -> 40

    Are you serious? ._.
    NarrowBrokenClingfish.gif7v73efept8vv.gif Luigi yo

    Yiix.gif

  • Bearmaster123Bearmaster123 Member Posts: 1,180 Sergeant
    @1up lol
    jro9bs3rr23y.jpg


    i got smash yay :D
  • xXMrPurpleNuggetXxxXMrPurpleNuggetXx Member Posts: 976 Corporal
    I agree with @Inflirtrator‌ , changing the core playstyle of sniper is the last thing it needs now, everything else is awesome, especially 6th sense
  • Melia_AntiquaMelia_Antiqua Member Posts: 1,492 Sergeant
    edited December 2014
    Hackey5 wrote: »
    @DaveChap: The reason I never bothered with the Assassin onwards was because the purpose of adding those classes was to generate profit more than producing purposeful content for the game. And I'd probably run out of original ideas too if I incorporated them into the system here. The Assault class only just got in, and as you mentioned with the SRCG, yeah, that's kind of what I mean.

    Fair enough on your point with Assassin onwards. That reason's already been established far before you came back anyway.

    On your point of Sniper in response to Purple, Sniper's lock times have been made to 10 seconds long across the board after her overhaul, which was probably the most atrocious one, siding away Soldier's overhaul. It's good that SkyVu's already fixing up that one, but Sniper, which your changes propose here (for the most part, at least), fix her from her overhaul as well.

    why do I always forget to make sure I complete the endcode of a quote code...
    Oh God, never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers.
  • OnesyOnesy Member Posts: 2,092 War Hero
    @Hackey5‌
    That being said, I still find it irritable that everyone should decrease LB's overall damage, since you have to have pierce aiming, and lag can throw off your shot quite easily.

    Also, I feel a WTF reaction was more needed than a Disagree. As I saw that the comment with LB's change, and felt, "Wtf...are you serious Hackey5? (¬_¬)""
    NarrowBrokenClingfish.gif7v73efept8vv.gif Luigi yo

    Yiix.gif

  • Melia_AntiquaMelia_Antiqua Member Posts: 1,492 Sergeant
    Just got home from work. Too lazy to start any arguments.

    But one thing I would like to say.
    Cloaked Olivers are way worse than cloaked Astorias

    (totally didn't edit your post in this quote for emphasis)
    Oh God, never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers.
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    @1UP: Which is why the Lightning Bolt receives Ammo Equipment in mind of its sharpshooting nature and lag. Keeping the rate of fire at 1.0 makes it incredibly fast for how effective it already is, so I don't think reducing its damage is unreasonable. Also, Damage Equipment is always an option.

    @Hectic:
    - Yes, the old Dead Eye makes a return with a non-negotiable firing delay of 3.0 between shots. It won't deal quite as much damage, but can score a headshot in 6 seconds while gaining up to 80 damage before then, depending on how long you aim at the target for.
    - It sounds like Cloaking has risen from the crevices of neglect since I last played. That's something new to me, and I'll be sure to keep that in mind when I start testing things. If that's the case, I'd set the duration to 15 seconds and the cooldown to 30 seconds. I'm also proposing the Sniper sits at 90 health with a universal +20% special speed boost applied to it. Does this sound like a good idea?
    - A 15 second duration/cooldown is virtually midway between its current and old (30 second cooldown/duration) stats for the Sixth Sense Goggles.
    - The Soldier suggestions, as well as those for the Heavy follow suit with more ammo and less damage on the most part. For explosives, they'll mostly be picking up damage and losing ammo to sit at the other side of the scale.
  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    @1UP‌ I really can't tell if you're just clueless or just trying to push LB's OP-ness off the charts.
    LB was "nerfed". The performance never changed.

    @Hackey5‌
    Just drop sniper for now.
    One thing I don't get. Why the nerf on acceleration, it wasn't enough to even strafe in the 1st place.
    I'm almost heading off for work so... Still too lazy to start anything..
  • LatroLatro Member Posts: 2,095 War Hero
    Except that cloaking is getting a nerf that puts it back where it was to begin with. No one will use it because of how visible you'll be (possibly more visible than nerfed Peek-A-Boo? I don't quite remember).
    <img width="300" height="150" src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5013404/uploads/editor/xf/zd5jgtoxi474.gif"; />


    “Drogon,” she sang out loudly, sweetly, all her fear forgotten. “Dracarys.”
  • OnesyOnesy Member Posts: 2,092 War Hero
    LB was "nerfed".

    Naah, I never knew. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    NarrowBrokenClingfish.gif7v73efept8vv.gif Luigi yo

    Yiix.gif

  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    1UP wrote: »
    LB was "nerfed".

    Naah, I never knew. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Can you just stop on bloody LB already? The performance was never bloody changed.

    Trust me, I have my eyes on CSSG soon enough.
  • Melia_AntiquaMelia_Antiqua Member Posts: 1,492 Sergeant
    1UP wrote: »
    LB was "nerfed".

    Naah, I never knew. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Can you just stop on bloody LB already? The performance was never bloody changed.

    Trust me, I have my eyes on CSSG soon enough.

    nowhere is safe.
    Oh God, never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers.
  • OnesyOnesy Member Posts: 2,092 War Hero
    @Inflirtrator‌
    Initially, it was only nerfed where you had to make more shots, in order to kill the enemy.
    Also, I was only expressing on why people would have thoughts of changing my LB.
    Right now, it seems ok, AND balanced, since it requires more hits, given the fact that it has a three ammo clip, and a long reload.
    So people have no right to bash out on me for my own affection of a weapon in an unbalanced game.
    Sure, people can have other opinions, but that's not my business.
    NarrowBrokenClingfish.gif7v73efept8vv.gif Luigi yo

    Yiix.gif

  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    Remember that we're here for discussion, not argument.

    @Inflirtrator‌: Ground acceleration is standardised for all classes at 400 and the same for air acceleration at 300. It may be viable to increase it for all classes, although its mechanics have always felt natural. Maybe.

    @Latro: Testing commences today. Let's see where Cloaking lies...
  • LatroLatro Member Posts: 2,095 War Hero
    edited December 2014
    Cloaking is crap. This I can attest after playing games with its nerfed form. Not only was I (and others) very visible, I was being killed by AoW and LB from half a map away. R.I.P. Assassin Huggable setup.
    <img width="300" height="150" src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5013404/uploads/editor/xf/zd5jgtoxi474.gif"; />


    “Drogon,” she sang out loudly, sweetly, all her fear forgotten. “Dracarys.”
  • Hackey5Hackey5 Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 4,772 Fabled
    @Latro: Cloaking's usage has definitely gone up, including the frequency during matches now it can be activated so often. Snipers aren't cloaked brilliantly, but due to their smallish size can be kind of deadly, especially with this Art of War gun now. However, larger classes are beyond conspicuous, so I've set the max visibility to 0.04, and the min visibility to 0.02. This may change as I observe Cloaking a bit more. I've made the unfade speed slightly less abrupt also.

    @SpectrumXIV‌: You have some interesting ideas. So you suggest the no-scope (unzoomed, just to be picky) base damage should be increased by, say, 25%, but then zooming will only initially reduce the damage before charging surpasses it in a few seconds or so? I know where you're coming from, mildly reducing a significant weakness of the Sniper in the instance of a confrontation, and it's a pretty smart way of doing it. I'm not exactly doubtful, but it's ambitious, and I'd like to hear what others think of your idea. Increasing the dispersion angle ever so slightly for no-scoping sounds like something I should have thought of before. I'll fit that in when I rewrite the sniper rifle redesign description. Nice work thinking all this up!
  • FREESHFREESH Member Posts: 5,443 Fabled
    But I like Wil's melees the way they are! :(
    ВЫЗЫВАЙТЕ СРЕДСТВА ПРОИЗВОДСТВА
    KV-2-1940.jpg
  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    @Clinkzbone‌
    Help me show @1UP that LB's performance pre "nerf" and post "nerf"
    *Facepalm*
  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    Hackey5 wrote: »
    Remember that we're here for discussion, not argument.

    @Inflirtrator‌: Ground acceleration is standardised for all classes at 400 and the same for air acceleration at 300. It may be viable to increase it for all classes, although its mechanics have always felt natural. Maybe.

    Well, I think low HP classes should have higher acceleration. Reason, strafing.

  • InflirtratorInflirtrator Member, SkyVu Beta Tester Posts: 2,810 Noble
    edited December 2014
    Astoria

    I still don't like the idea of changing an already clearly defined playstyle which everyone understands to something more complicated and situational.

    Health- 100
    Speed- 315-320/315-320/315-320
    Acceleration- Unsure


    1. Categorising the rifles (I'll leave Blow Dart and UC2.0 out)

    /Non-Burst Rifles
    ~Auto-Lock
    3 Seconds Green Lock
    +2 Seconds Headshot
    ~0 Dispersion
    ~Lock Radius of 350/375
    ~Remove Invisible Hitbox for AoW
    Art Of War, Lightning Bolt, and Energy Rifle don't take as much skill as everyone think it does. It has an extended hitbox that the graphic doesn't show.
    ~Fix undamaging penetrating shots for rifles below except AoW which I have not encountered it on. Sometimes, the beam just passes through other players and not deal an damage.

    -Viper Rifle
    -Capital Pains Green
    -Art Of War(My stand on this weapon is a little... Ambiguous?)
    -Dead Eye

    /Burst Rifles

    -Capital Pains Red
    -Mambas Boy

    Non-Burst
    To be completed.

    @Hackey5‌ Do u have the stats for when the rifles were actually balanced between themselves? I can't recall which version was it
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